Nine years ago I joined this forum because I wanted to learn as much about training my lab pup (Salem) as possible. I ended up doing the smartworks technique and supplemented by sending him to a pro trainer with access to birds, ponds, and fields for actual live bird training. Anyway, he turned out to be a great dog. My friends call him robodog because he does whatever I want him to do. He also is a very good hunting dog. Anyway, he hit 9 years old earlier this year and is having low back issues effecting his balance and back legs. So he is retired to being a house dog. So basically 3 years of training before serious hunting, minus 1 year were I was laid up with a knee operation, two years too busy with work/life to hunt so I got 4 maybe 5 years of hunting with Salem. I figured I had 2 or 3 more good years left. Anyway, over the years, I realized I like upland hunting much better than duck hunting. If I never have to sit in another flooded corn field I would be 100% ok with that. So I used Salem mostly for upland hunting which he did well, but there were plenty of grouse flushes that I did not have time to get in proper position. I had the opportunity to hunt over a pointing dog and it was an amazing experience. So now, even though I love labs, I am thinking pointer for my next dog. As I research GSPs and English Pointers, I see that they are very high strung and would not do well in the house unless I could work them 2 - 3 hours a day. Since I am in the suburbs this is not really possible. So I recently started looking at Llewellin Setters. They seem to get good reviews as a hunting and house dog. My concern is how much of the smartworks process can I use on a setter and can they ever be as trained to fetch, stay, come etc... as well as a lab? Are the basic training techniques completely different for a pointer/setter? What parts of the Smartworks system toolbox can I use and should not use? I realize their will be specialized point to flush training, whoa etc... that will need to be taught outside the smartworks system and will figure that out. For example, when I call my lab in he comes every time, no exceptions. Training for this was completed by my son holding him back with a leash while I applied pressure and commanded "Here!". It was the most brutal part of the train process but only lasted maybe 15 minutes and since then never an issue with the here command - here means here. Would I be able to use the same technique on a setter, or would they be too soft for a training technique with so much pressure. Also, would I force fetch a setter? My lab fetches every single time. Are setters FF'd? They have huge desire to find birds, how is there desire to chase something and bring it back until they drop of exhaustion? Since I can't always hunt, I liked to throw a frisbee, tennis ball, bumper to my lab for quick near home exercise. Anyway, I know this is mostly a duck dog forum but I also know many smart hunters here have experience with other types of dogs and would like to get your thoughts on the trainabilty of a pointer/setter. I have gotten used to a dog that listens without fail and it would drive me nuts if I had a hard to control dog even if I did everything correctly. Sorry for the long post and I hope everyone is doing well. 9 years is a long time even for us humans. Happy Hunting!