Advice on next dog (long question)

Discussion in 'Gun Dog Forum' started by Laboratory, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. Laboratory

    Laboratory Senior Refuge Member

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    Thanks for everyone's input, lots to think about.... As I researched GSPs (Drahthaars) and English Pointers, I found that they are very high strung and would not do well in a 1/4 acre suburban lot house with kids, cat, and hidden fence unless I could somehow work it 2 - 3 hours a day. So I started looking at Llewellin Setters. They seem to get good reviews as a hunting and house dog and they are great at upland hunting. I have retired from standing in half-frozen flooded cornfields at 5AM duck wishing.

    My concern (and main question) is how much of the smartworks process can I use on a Llewellin setter and can they ever be as trained to fetch, stay, come etc... as well as a lab? Are the basic training techniques completely different for a pointer/setter? What parts of the Smartworks system toolbox can I use and should not use? I realize their will be specialized point to flush training, whoa etc... that will need to be taught outside the smartworks system and will figure that out.
     
  2. 3drahthaars

    3drahthaars Elite Refuge Member

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    Just an FYI my setter had th be least inclination of any to retrieve.

    It was one of the traits that pushed me toward my first DD.

    But if I were to choose a method for a softer dog, I'd look at Hillman...
     
  3. Laboratory

    Laboratory Senior Refuge Member

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    Did you force fetch the setter?
     
  4. Laboratory

    Laboratory Senior Refuge Member

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    Unfortunately the Hilmans are now extinct. http://dbodwhillman.blogspot.com/
     
  5. Doc E

    Doc E Elite Refuge Member Sponsor

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    Hillman is actually spelled Hillmann
    and Smartworks is spelled Smartwork

    .
     
  6. Laboratory

    Laboratory Senior Refuge Member

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    3D and Dareal, you guys have me looking at a GWP ( I think the Drahthaar is the same dog different line - probably some debate on this).

    However, information like this in gundogmag make me nervous. I would not like my dog chasing squirrels, cats, postmen, and small children. I wouldn't want to worry about the dog biting a stranger that comes into my yard or snapping at other dogs.

    I have watched my lab out in the yard and a squirrel can be eating a nut 5 yards away and my lab pays no attention, same with deer, curious but not interested enough in them to chase one... only interested in birds... and skunks :(. However, (I do have friends with mostly untrained labs and they do chase deer and squirrel)

    I think, as with most dogs, it is finding the right breeder and dog and training it properly. We'll see, but the training process for them seems like I could use the smartwork training system for everything but the pointing part. I'd love to be able to use much I learned about dog training from EvanG on my next dog.

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    "Despite the fact that the Drahthaar is the number one sporting dog in Europe, the Verein Deutsch Drahthaar (translated “true German wirehair”) hasn’t become all that popular in North America, Wilson points out. “One reason may be that some of these gun dogs have gotten the reputation of being too high-powered, too hard to train, and too hard to control for many hunting situations,” he says. “Likewise, a few individual dogs sometimes show signs of sharpness toward people and other dogs, ‘biters and fighters,’ in other words, that give the whole breed a bad name. In addition, some lines of Drahthaars are known to have a predilection for hunting furred predators and vermin, and in the process, ruining hunts for upland gamebirds or waterfowl."
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  7. darealdeal

    darealdeal New Member

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    I have a GSP and he has been great with kids. It takes time to train them not to jump on small children but it can happen. Mine is just over two years old and they take longer than a lab to mature, but again has been the best dog I have owned. Very smart easy to train just have to be patient because they do not take kind to harsh training methods from what I have been able to research and from my anecdotal experience. I have trained mine to duck hunt with me nothing fancy I just wanted him to go and pick up birds, but once he turned two I have been training some blinds and has been doing great thus far......... Dogs will make a liar out of you quickly....... Even if you wanted to just use him to upland hunt most of the ones I have had contact with have a lot of natural pointing ability and prey drive.... With that being said mine will chase small game but only because I have not taken the time to train him not to unless commanded to do so. Just the other day he chased down a deer fawn did not kill it but I'm sure it had a pretty good heart attack....... That is one if the things I have seen in all of my personal research is small dogs, cats, bird, pretty much anything that just takes off and runs from him he will chase unless I stop him. Now my dog has never chased a small child unless the child was playing around and running with him, but I also do not let my dog around small children without supervision or his e-collar on because he is a young dog and needs to be trained on how to properly interact with small kids as well as how the small kids should interact with a dog. Only advice I can really give you is make a choice an go with it. Go with the dog that would fit you the best and my GSP will go duck hunting with me, rabbit one day, track deer and pretty much anything I take the time to train him to do.

    I did use the Bill Hillmann videos to help train my dog and some of the Freddy King videos as well, but that was for ideas on exercises to work marks....

    Take from this what you will.... Like I said earlier no expert......
     
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  8. 3drahthaars

    3drahthaars Elite Refuge Member

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    If you get the next issue of GDM you will see my letter to the editor about that article. Verein Deutsch Drahthaar means Club German Wirehair not "true" GW... that sets the tone for all of the other untruths in the article that I pointed out.

    Just perform the due diligence for whichever breed you choose.

    3ds
     
  9. Troller

    Troller Senior Refuge Member

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    Boykin Spaniel - French Brittany - English Cocker
     
  10. Laboratory

    Laboratory Senior Refuge Member

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    While I researched Drahthaars, I kept reading how that Pudelpointers are part of their background. I figured it was some now extinct or exotic breed since I never have heard of them before. I did a few web searches and they seem to be a great choice.

    * Strong upland pointers
    * Mild temperament that sounds like that of a well socialized lab.
    * Can do waterfowl in case I get dragged out in a half frozen cornfield by my buddies one winter.
    * Can utilize much of Smartwork training process which I have gone through once with great success and have all the DVDs from EvanG for review.
    * Solid breeder h̶e̶r̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶M̶i̶c̶h̶i̶g̶a̶n̶.̶ nearby in Ontario.
    * Bonus: Very light shedders and hypoallergenic. Which may help convince the wife when the time is right.

    Other than them being fairly rare in the U.S. and a larger dog then I was thing of, I can't find any negatives.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017

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