Did You Get This Year's Flu Shot ?

Discussion in 'The Duck Hunters Forum' started by Doc E, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. bang you'r dead

    bang you'r dead Canada Forum Mod. Eh! Moderator Flyway Manager

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    Not dumb, but possibly not fully informed on how vaccinations work. There is the concept of herd immunity. Be immunizing as many of the population as possible, it minimizes the exposure of those who cannot, for allergy reasons, immunocompromised patients , those who do not have access to vaccines, etc., and decreases their chances of getting the flu (or any other vaccine-preventable disease). So getting the flu shot may help others not be exposed. Again , your choice, but be as informed as possible, and please use reputable information sites. (CDC etc.)
     
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  2. Bear

    Bear Elite Refuge Member

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    The Spanish flu is supposed to be latent in some mass graves of the time and there is some concern about them unknowingly being disturbed because of construction.

    Perhaps some of you medicos can confirm or deny this but if I remember correctly the Spanish flu was not particularly deadly by itself but was brought over here by returning troops to a population that had zero resistance.

    Any thoughts?
     
  3. J.Bennett

    J.Bennett Elite Refuge Member

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    I don’t think that people should take it lightly any time they are considering putting something in their body (that isn’t food). I am not someone who thinks that everyone needs to be vaccinated, but I do think that everyone should educate themselves enough to make an informed decision regarding these types things. I don’t want to see someone scared into making a decision (one way or the other) based on bad information or information that is presented in a misleading way...

    Guillain-Barre is triggered by an immune response, and the flu vaccine does cause an immune response... So theoretically yes, the flu vaccine can cause GBS but I think that the real question is “how likely is it?” Not very. There are about 3,000 to 6,000 cases of GBS in the US each year. According to the available data, flu vaccinations may be the cause of an additional 1-2 cases of GBS per every million vaccinations given. With current vaccination rates, this amounts to an additional 150-175 cases each year.

    As far as decreasing your body's natural immune response goes... An infection usually "builds up" over a period of time in your body, giving your immune system time to recruit more troops to fight the impending infection. A vaccine mimics a full blown infection but it bypasses the building up/recruit more troops phase. Theoretically, this means that since your immune system hasn't had a chance to create additional troops to fight the fake infection, it must devote a greater percentage of its current forces to fighting the fake infection than it would if it had time to build up (as it would with a real infection). There is some evidence that suggests this disproportionate deployment of troops leaves your body more susceptible to real infections while your body is fighting off the fake one. How susceptible would vary by individual, and would only last as long as it takes for the immune system to catch up (maybe a week or two tops). How great of an effect it has is up for debate, but it is not something that I personally would place high on my list of things to worry about unless I was already immunocompromised to begin with. For others it may be a much greater concern.

    "Bad batches" will sometimes pop up. I don't remember ever seeing a recall of any flu vaccine for what would be considered a serious safety concern. When they are recalled, it is usually due to either potency issues (generally occur due to the vaccine getting either too warm or freezing while being transported) or quality control issues (for example, a certain percentage of a particular lot of multi-dose vials might have a deformed cap, so the whole lot is recalled). I wouldn't say that a bad batch that is a serious safety concern hasn't or couldn't get out there, but it would be a rarity (though not an impossibility).
     
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  4. J.Bennett

    J.Bennett Elite Refuge Member

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    Herd immunity is something that the one on the receiving end of the needle might not consider and seldom even understands, but it is probably the greatest benefit that we as a population receive from widespread immunization.
     
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  5. Squaller

    Squaller Elite Refuge Member

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    I would be very curious to hear yours (and Jeff’s) thoughts on the fact that it would seem (at least from some studies and articles) that repeated flu shots actually seem to increase the incidence of the flu virus in individuals (or at least that is how I interpret it)? The phenomena of “Negative Interference” specifically?

    https://www.statnews.com/2015/11/11/flu-shots-reduce-effectiveness/

    Also, we know that corresponding with increased vaccinations (especially chicken pox and flu vaccinations) we have seen an increased prevalence of allergies and asthma across the globe. Most studies and papers I have read, dismiss vaccinations as a possible cause of this increase, but this increase as of yet is still a mystery.

    Yet, we also know that children that enter day care at a younger age, and are introduced with more pathogens, are LESS likely to have allergies later in life.

    I have often wondered if the argument against immunizations being (at least partially responsible) is not more of an economic argument rather than a scientific one???

    I look forward to seeing what both you and JBennet have to say...
     
  6. num70

    num70 Elite Refuge Member

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    Very good information.
    Thanks again.
     
  7. J.Bennett

    J.Bennett Elite Refuge Member

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    I’m not familiar with the study above, and I’m actually waiting for my appointment in the eye doc’s office (not your’s Squaller), so I’m on my phone which makes it difficult to research (I like having a full screen in front of me when I’m looking at things like this), but the first question that pops into my head is “How much less protection?”

    I’ll look into it more when I have an opportunity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  8. bang you'r dead

    bang you'r dead Canada Forum Mod. Eh! Moderator Flyway Manager

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    I apologize. My first degree was in Microbiology and Immunology, and 35 years ago, I was right on top of the game.......but now, not so much. I will do some reading and get back to you on the negative interference. (ps. I got the flu shot....free in our province....and I give as well. We make $7 an injection, which barely covers our time and cost, so basically not a huge money maker)
     
  9. tcc

    tcc Elite Refuge Member

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    How was it? I've always wondered but never been brave enough to try it. :yes

    I get the shot some years, some not. No real rhyme or reason, just depends on how busy I get or whatever. Only ever had it twice, once with the shot and once without. It's not something I fret about. I'm sure as I get older I'll get it more often.
     
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  10. hobbydog

    hobbydog Elite Refuge Member

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    I listened to an audiobook calle Get Well Soon by Jennifer Wright. A very interesting book on the history of plagues. There is a chapter on the Spanish Flu. It started on a training base at Fort Riley Kansas. It was especially fatal. The book talks about the politics and how it spread. I believe it was in Philadelphia where there was a big military sendoff parade and there were a lot of sick people there. Health officials wanted it called off but White House did not want to alarm the public and they got the press to keep the story out of the papers. Soldiers were dropping like flies on crowded troop ships and survivors were mixed in with other troops. It affected 500 million people around the world, killing 50-100 million or about 3-5% of the world population. It was especially hard on healthy 20-30 old males. If you like history it is an interesting read. We are living in good times. If it were not for vaccinations in a world where people routinely travel the world, there would be a whole lot less people alive today.
     

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