Proposed changes to Migratory Birds Regulations could end feeding

Discussion in 'Canadian Hunters Forum' started by green_head123, Jan 22, 2017.

  1. Hollow Point

    Hollow Point New Member

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    OK, I'm full of beans? If your numbers are correct on the 86 million acres of waste grain laying exposed in harvested fields that can feed more ducks than exist, then there is no reason to build these artificial wintering grounds (flooded un-harvested corn fields/irrigation pumps to pull heated ground water). Like I have said before, hunting from un-harvested grain fields needs to be outlawed, hunting from harvested grain fields 100% legal. The playing field is fair across the continent. I agree AR, MS, TX and AL have all been wintering grounds, they have been feeling the affects to over the last 20 years.

    Yes, the entire flyway has been leveed, dredged and planted. If historically there was water and food for the migrations from start to finish, why do the Duck Farmers need to hunt un-harvested grain fields (food plots using irrigation pumps when God does intend things to freeze)? Weather is abnormally warm this year, there is no denying that, what about last year and the years up until the MBTA was amended in '98 because of that one word "know" to "Knowingly"? Pre '98 coastal states harbored waterfowl everywhere, post '98 they don't.

    How about you focus on TN and quit trying to get into peoples heads on your theorized problems and solutions up and down the flyway? I view the coastal marshes by aircraft very, very regularly. Between Houma Louisiana and Venice Louisiana, I cannot deny it is very bad. Other coastal marsh areas, not as bad and it has been made out to be (fake news). A football field every 100 minutes??? That is extremely exaggerated, about like our duck numbers are inflated. Our annual kill used to consist mostly of mallards, pintail and widgeon, now it is mostly made up of teal, spoonbill and black jacks. The last two ducks mentioned are ones that are normally passed over to wait for the desired birds.
     
  2. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Ah, so you simply ignore biologists and scientists in favor of anecdotal evidence. Cool story, but you are as lost as this seasons migration. By the way, the weather last year did push them down, but it came too late to help some folks since those birds pushed back at every slight warmup. The football field every hundred minutes is accurate and actually was revised from a football field an hour where it stood a few years ago.

    Regardless, this is a thread about Canada, and I have no problem with them doing whatever they wish.

    Between land loss, changing ag practices and invasives (salvinia) y'all have lost 40% of your ability to hold ducks. Those are all scientific facts.
     
  3. Hollow Point

    Hollow Point New Member

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    Anecdotal evidence is called experience. That is more reliable. Mine not alone, but hunters in all Southern states. I am about as lost as you are a puppet attached to the strings of organizations that pull it like Louisiana's waterfowl biologist. That's why I do not rely on their "evidence".

    Then why concern yourself with the Canadian proposals?

    Let me give you another scientific fact. There are reasons signs are put up not to feed wild animals, because animals become dependent on the feed (which in not what God intended).

    A duck doesn't care about the order of operation.

    1+2=3
    2+1=3
    Corn to water=Bait
    Water to corn=Bait

    It ultimately has the same affect but worse.
     
  4. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    God intended there be food throughout the flyway until covered up by heavy snow and ice. The rest of your post is wrong as well. Your experience is EXTREMELY limited if you believe the FFL crap. I'm not at all concerned with the proposal. It's their business. I'm concerned with ill-informed people and liars proposing we set conservation in this country back to the 20s.
     
  5. Hollow Point

    Hollow Point New Member

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    God did intend there be food throughout the flyway until it was covered by heavy snow and ice. So why is man involved with making artificial wintering grounds (flooded un-harvested corn fields/irrigation pumps-ice eaters) that does hold waterfowl from migrating to the Southern states? Fact. Man is not God, God had it right the first time and will have it right again left alone.

    My experience is extremely limited??? You have no clue of my experience nor knowledge. And I'll only give you so much.

    I have actually followed your posts on different websites and Facebook pages for a couple of years, just never commented. I have always thought of you as a puppet for the organizations that benefit. See how I haven't called them out but you want to involve the Flyway Federation? I have actually talked to guys involved in this organization and they chose to rename it because after being contacted by people throughout the flyway they understand it is not only a Louisiana problem.

    You were sticking your nose in their proposal, that is the only reason I have commented here.

    Don't call me a liar bud, you plant lies all over in the name of "conservation".
     
  6. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    Cool story, so you are ill-informed by lies others have told you. Just your quote about ice eaters holding up the migration is enough to point to your inexperience.

    Oh, and God will indeed have his way, but it will be after man is gone from the landscape. Unless we tear down every levee and dam in the flyway and simply let nature take its course, agriculture and weather will dictate most of the migration. FFL is an absolute joke. I should learn to ignore people like you due to the old truism of what happens whey you argue with idiots, but I hate seeing downright wrong information held up as gospel.
     
  7. Bird Watcher

    Bird Watcher Senior Refuge Member

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    I"m going to proclaim that even if you get rid of every flooded corn pool in the midwest, the ducks will still not come south unless there is weather....snow deeper than their neck, frozen rain, something has to cover the field. single digit temps only make it better. Cold itself doesn't push ducks out of my area anymore. It takes prolonged periods of single digits and snow, deep snow that won't blow, drift or melt. Get rid of No till farming and you might have something.

    It's pretty obvious that all these "baiting experts" have probably never ventured farther North than Texarkana. If you've never witnessed how fast 10,000 mallards can eat every kernel of corn out of a wasted section of corn, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

    No....Till...Corn....Corps lakes and rivers for roost. Exponentially more roost and corn available than all the duck parks, private and public combined.
     
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  8. Hollow Point

    Hollow Point New Member

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    Why ignore people like me, because I have more common sense than an educated person like yourself? Or how educated am I? You will never know.

    Did the Duck Farming practices not take off and grow across the mid-continental US after the amendment to the MBTA in '98? It's puppets like you that keep pushing the propaganda that Southern states no longer see the mass migrations due to "weather, agriculture changes and coastal erosion".

    And the Duck Farms do have ways to hold bodies of water open. Major freeze (irrigation pumps to pull up ground water "Heated Ponds"), minor freeze ("Ice Eaters" to hold areas open).

    I will agree with what you said, "agriculture" will dictate most of the migration. That is why Duck Farms using flooded un-harvested corn fields needs to be outlawed to allow the migration to take place like God intended. I along with most of the people I communicate with have no concern about the normal agricultural practice of no till/low till. If its the 86 million acres of harvested waste grain left exposed un-intentionally, so be it. That is a bona fide business. The problem is the non-agricultural practice of flooding un-harvested corn fields intentionally to hold birds from migrating to the Southern states. This is in Fact happening.

    If you believe that the Duck Farms are so minor in holding up the migration, why do you not support addressing laws to get it stopped?

    And your comment, "I should learn to ignore people like you due to the old truism of what happens when you argue with idiots", is the reason I have never wanted to get involved with a debate with you. Because I truly believe you are an idiot. The only reason for me being here right now is because I see you are going to try to push the Canadian proposal as not good, which it is.
     
  9. bill cooksey

    bill cooksey Elite Refuge Member

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    I don't care one bit about the Canadian proposal. It's 100% their business, and I'm only here because of people who want to bring it here. The 20+ year run of liberal seasons is the reason people have been willing to spend more than in the past. Y'all want to make sweeping changes to the law in a way that will profoundly impact virtually every duck hunter north of I-10 in a very negative way, and you are doing it with ZERO scientific evidence.

    The fact you aren't man enough to let folks know who you are says even you have no confidence in your arguments. No reason to engage me again until you actually have the courage of your convictions.
     
  10. KSU86

    KSU86 Senior Refuge Member

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    Central Kansas here. I’m a landowner/summer duck farmer & winter duck hunter.
    The state of Missouri invests much more in their wildlife refuges (including corn planting) vs Kansas and the migration appears to have shifted eastward (IMHO).
    This mild winter has ducks short stopped in NEB and SD. (IMHO).
    The key question for me - What is in the best interest of the resource (ducks)?
    Is it best for their long-term population health to reduce food offerings on their migration south to help hunters in Louisiana have better hunting opportunities?
    Missouri is out competing Kansas for the feathered travelers... The only grounds for me to gripe, is if it harms the resource’s long-term health - Given 20 years of liberal seasons, where is the evidence to support that harm?

    Russ
     
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