Prs. Trump pardons ranchers/the Hammonds

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by double limit, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,432
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    I don’t doubt it, as I would do the same. Those guys really were goons.

    You mentioned evidence...

    Is that not the job of the prosecutor? Submit evidence, and hope you have enough for a conviction? It would seem, in this case, there was enough evidence to prove them guilty of arson. The USG has deemed arson is a minimum of 5, and I’m not completely sure why these guys didn’t get 10, for two separate charges (2001, 2006). Would you argue a murderer who slips through the cracks and gets released early shouldn’t have to go back, when it’s found out and corrected? It matters not what the crime is, if it carries a mandatory min, should it not be honored?

    Obviously none of this matters anymore, as the pardon has been granted. Just mind boggling to see so many right leaning folks wanting US law to be violated/ignored.
     
  2. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,432
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    Shooting real hard to watch it tonight.
     
  3. The_Duck_Master

    The_Duck_Master Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    6,846
    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2004
    Location:
    Salem, Oregon
    Many ranchers in the west who graze on state, forest or BLM lands have the attitude that they own the land and treat it as such. Those of you siding with the Hammonds in this case ought to ask yourselves what your stance would be if they were allowing their animals to graze on land owned by another individual rather than from the Feds. The Hammonds obstructed construction of a fence to keep their cattle off their neighbors land, repeatedly ran their cattle through a portion of the property they were told not to, started fires several times that burned property they didn't lease and then threatened the owner's hired manager over it. Yes, I know that this discussion is not about those aspects but it says something about his character. Ask yourself if you would have the same attitude if they had done the same to a private individual.
     
  4. stevena198301

    stevena198301 Elite Refuge Member Supporting Member

    Messages:
    15,432
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2015
    Location:
    HSV, Alabama
    :tu ^
     
    Squaller and The_Duck_Master like this.
  5. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,713
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    Not really.

    I have been performing prairie habitat burns for roughly 20 years, having gone through the requisite wildland firefighter training courses. Sounds like their back burn saved some of their winter stock.
     
  6. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,713
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    K. Then what did the trial judge base his decision on relative to giving the Hammonds a reduced sentence? And if his decision to originally sentence the Hammonds at a level below the mandatory minimum had no basis in the law, and was arbitrary - was the judge suspended? Reprimanded?

    What I am blown away by is otherwise sane people taking government press releases and government based prosecutorial court documents from an adversarial proceeding at face value. I have dealt with various branches of the federal and state governments in numerous administrative proceedings, up to trial. Talk about having to roll the ball uphill.........

    As to mandatory minimums - they should probably go back to sentencing guidelines. But once an offender is sentenced at the low end, and ends up repeating their crimes upon release - look for the cry of mandatory minimums to return.
     
  7. KENNEDY63

    KENNEDY63 Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    8,713
    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2005
    Location:
    MINNESOTA
    The Hammonds sound like a lot of hunters and other public land users who routinely trespass on private land adjacent to public land. How were the Hammonds compensated for the deer, elk, and other animals that are property of the state that grazed on their lands, ate their crops, and dined on their round bales? Is grazing comp a one way street? This presumably went on for decades.

    The Hammonds and other private parties adjacent to Malheur were subject to repeated harassment, flooding, etc etc etc at the hands of the federal government over decades. Ask yourself if you would have the same attitude if the feds bought a chunk next to you.

    This deal works both ways........which means that there is probably plenty of blame for both parties.

    Quite honestly, if I was the Hammonds - I probably would have surrendered to the bully tactics of the Feds long before this whole deal reached the point that it did and sold the ranch.
     
  8. API

    API PAF-CA Flyway Moderator Flyway Manager

    Messages:
    26,807
    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    SoCal
    Generally probably a true statement ...except when the miscreant is well connected politically. In that case bet that they will not only skate, but reap some added benefits. Reference Bill and Hillary.

    The kicker is which aggrieved party controls the narrative and directs the preponderance of information flow feeding the sheep.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  9. double limit

    double limit Elite Refuge Member

    Messages:
    2,307
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2006
    Location:
    lambertville,ca
    Fascinating subject matter. Thanks to all who gave their opinion. I respect all the opinions.
     
  10. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

    Messages:
    13,817
    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2003
    Location:
    JeffcoMO
    You want to see how crooked our government has been with western lands especially with American Indians I'd suggest watching this PBS/America Reframed show titled 100 Years. I watched it a few nights ago and was just amazed at how much corruption there is. Basically it's about an Indian woman's 14 year fight against the government for moneys owed and never paid Indian tribes for Oil, Lumber and Mineral leases on Indian lands. The Tribes estimated the BLM and BIA owed them around $127 Billion dollars, real good documentary.
    https://www.pbs.org/video/arf-100-years-trailer/
     
    double limit likes this.

Share This Page