Short Stopping

Discussion in 'Louisiana Flyway Forum' started by DComeaux, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Rick Hall

    Rick Hall Elite Refuge Member

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    Not many in the marshes or on ag land. I was one who got ruffled when their limit was cut because our birds were lumped with Texas'. But I now see the cut as a good thing.
     
  2. lucky_man

    lucky_man Refuge Member

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    I believe it has to do with modern farm equipment as well. In the past 20 years seed/combine tech has jumped leaps and bounds. Before a combine would lose close to 10% of grain, now that number is down to around 3-4%. Then factor in the fact that 1 new, large capacity combine can take the place of 3 other older ones, now you are talking around 20-25% less grain loss. Add this to newer varieties of crops that can be harvested earlier and with less ****ter, that bumps the number up even more. After 10-15 years of this, the flight patterns change because there are slim pickings. I know if I was hungry, and kept going down the same interstate twice a year, every year and never saw a restaurant whenever I went down it, after awhile I'd take a different route so I could get something to eat. Or just not make the trip if I didn't have to. Same with ducks. But just my 2¢.
     
  3. lucky_man

    lucky_man Refuge Member

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    That was ****ter. As in not cracking or breaking up. Not sure why it astrict it out.
     
  4. Rick Hall

    Rick Hall Elite Refuge Member

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    The word it's auto-editing is a slang term for feces.
     
  5. LADucks

    LADucks Refuge Member

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    In the spirit of discussion, I'm going to offer a little advocacy for the devil. Although it does sound odd that you can't hunt water that bait has been put in, but you can hunt bait that water has been put in... there is some control there. One can only get a stalk of corn to produce so much corn, but you could deposit endless amounts of your own. Although I have zero data to back this up, I feel we left wayyy more grain on the ground back in the day than we could ever leave standing now. With the efficiency of harvesters today coupled with a proposed regulation of no left-over ag crops.... I feel we would see a really unwanted consequence. I see it enough already with the soybean/corn fields where after harvesting, they roll, roll, roll until it looks like a Walmart parking lot. If we know the efficiency of harvesters has had a negative impact, further reducing grain left-over would only add to that. Back in the gap, you could flood a harvested corn and soybean field and have a lot of food. Now, you're just going to be hunting a mud hole. We can't think like we did back then. Harvesting left plenty back then and we had no reason to leave any standing. Those rules don't apply anymore.

    Yes, there are stories and pictures of people flooding a 100 acres of standing corn. I'd bet that is less than .5%. The other 99.5% are farmers first, hunting entrepreneurs second. I don't see an issue leaving 2-3 acres in a 40-50 acre field because someone paid you extra. Maybe a regulation that you can only leave a certain percentage standing (so much has to be harvested)? I'd support that. I just don't like the idea of wiping it out completely.
     
  6. jrock75

    jrock75 Senior Refuge Member

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    The standing crops argument kills me every time I hear it. Growing corn, rice, beans, or whatever is damn expensive so who exactly is paying for it? Lets see, 6,000 lbs/acre yield of rice at $10/hundred weight and a 150 acre field/blind is $90,000/blind. Math is the same for corn: 200 bushels/acre at $3.00/bushel and 150 acres/blind = $90,000/blind. Who exactly is footing the bill for all these flooded crops everyone mentions? I know some really wealthy guys who are very mad at the ducks and none of them are paying their farmer $90,000/blind to leave their property unharvested to help them kill a few hundred more ducks. And DU, the States, or the Feds sure aren't footing that kind of bill up and down the flyway. Run the math for Tony Vandemore or other guides and they are not paying it either: 60 day season and assume it is hunted every day, 4 guests/day @ $400 per = $72,000/blind/year in revenue. That doesn't even come close to cover the cost of leaving the crops standing, not to mention labor and paying for the land itself. Sure there are small patches of standing crops here and there but from a total food mass perspective across the millions of acres of habitat up and down the flyway, standing crops are an absolutely meaningless source of food for waterfowl.

    We need to give up the nonsense talk of restricting private property rights and telling farmers and landowners what they can and can't do to attract ducks. We need to encourage people to build habitat and food, not ban it. The "glory years" in LA occurred when we planted much more rice and had much higher quality marsh habitat. This is not a coincidence. How can you be proud of what Warren Coco did in South LA building habitat while complain about someone like Jeff Farmer in Arkansas or Tony Vandemore in Missouri?
     
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  7. JHerr

    JHerr Elite Refuge Member

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    There's a flaw - yankee combines should be just as efficient as are the machines in the southern MAV. Therefore, there should be less waste from here to Canada.

    Early harvest in the south I'll agree somewhat - any grain that's wasted has either rotted or sprouted by the time the ducks show up.

    Ag-wise, I think lower areas that have been returned to trees, which were likely flooded, un-harvested soybeans back 20+ yrs ago, have had a greater impact. The onset of WRP/CRP and the beginning of the decline in green top sightings are too coincidental not to recognize.
     
  8. JHerr

    JHerr Elite Refuge Member

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    Government has done it and probably still does it on NWR's via "cooperative farming agreements", whereby the gov's rent, be it 1/5 of the crop in-kind is left unharvested in the field.

    It only takes a few acres of unharvested beans or corn to make one hell of a killin' hole (on private land).
     
  9. portahunter

    portahunter Elite Refuge Member

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    jrock75, you may want to go over your math again.

    Question for yall. Are most of the fields over there second cut every year? Seems like it used to be a common practice over here in Southeast Texas but now very few fields seem to get second cut each year. The few second cut fields I've been in seem to have more waste rice than those that are only cut once. Also the second cut fields seem to get cut in Oct. so there would be a fresh round of waste grain on the ground going into general season as opposed to single cut field that gets picked over pretty hard during and right after teal season from the bluewings.
     
  10. jrock75

    jrock75 Senior Refuge Member

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    Sorry. Bad math. So its $96,000 revenue for the guided operation example. Still doesn't change the conclusion that you are not paying a farmer $90,000 to not harvest his grain. Add in a more reasonable 75% hunting rate and a more reasonable $300/day cost and you are at $54,000 for the year.

    No second cut in North Louisiana. Still lots of ratoon in South Louisiana, particularly south of I-10.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2018 at 9:22 PM

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