Trumps Infrastructure plan Good or Bad

Discussion in 'Political Action Forum' started by 10GAGENUT, Feb 13, 2018.

  1. Matagorda Bound

    Matagorda Bound Senior Refuge Member

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    But it's theoretically possible that the concept could be poorly executed so that means the concept is categorically wrong. A then B then C, see.
     
  2. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    Most of the major cities/large urban areas already have some kind of mass transit system in place, for the most part it works for them. What I believe your speaking of is bringing mass transit to smaller cites and urban areas, the city of St Louis tried that many years ago dumping billions into the MetroLink light rail system. So far it's been a total loss not making one dime and costing the city/county $10 for every person that rides MetroLink paying the $2.50 fare. Mass transit in many areas looks like a great idea on paper, the reality of it is it won't work or be economical in many areas.
    https://showmeinstitute.org/blog/transportation/light-rail-losing-proposition-saint-louis
     
  3. buck_master_2001

    buck_master_2001 Elite Refuge Member

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    I’m referring to the bigger cities and keeping the idea open to expanding what they have or coming up with better solutions. We are going to eventually reach a point to where it will be more heavily leaned on. As we continue to grow and do nothing about our highways people will eventually get tired of sitting in traffic for hours a day. Perhaps we aren’t there yet.

    It seems like a lot of the ones in place were half *****. Like the one you speak of. Starts out as a good idea and then by the time politics has its way with the idea it then just becomes all sorts of messed up.
     
  4. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    After traveling for over 20 years for work and being in just about every major and minor city in the country, IMO the problem with the roads is the secondary roads are not able to handle the traffic. Most Midwestern cities for example have a good interstate system with most having a loop for traffic to use, it's when you get off the loop or interstate that problems start. Atlanta to me is another example of this, they have interstates going everywhere once you get off the interstate you could wind up on roads that were built before WWII , the roads are extremely congested and can't handle the amount of traffic on them today, which in many east coast cities is also the problem.
    Like you stated it's politics and what the politicians think needs to be fixed, right now I believe many of them are spending money in the wrong places.
     
  5. Ron Gilmore

    Ron Gilmore Elite Refuge Member

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    Buck it is simply and idea not a good idea because so many times the politics is to do something even wrong for the sake of doing something! So much is touchy feely make people think they care and are doing something.

    10ga is correct and in many cases there is no fix. Streets have been widen as much as they can. We have a couple arterial roads that go from 3 lanes with turn lanes down to single lane to connect with another arterial road.. Finally they got jump off points ahead of the single lane area that give other alternative routes but it took a lot to do it including purchase of property as it came up for sale and as part of flood protection.

    Nobody when these cities where designed or expanded way back could look ahead and grasp the need. Where I live in the city was farm land a decent ways out. I harvested beets off this ground in the early 80s. Tens years later our area was developed into housing and now 6-7 miles south is almost fully developed and the planners used existing county roads in planning which really wasn't the best option in most cases.

    Next was the Fed Transportation rules on egress to the interstate. Limits cities in adding feeders onto and off of as well! Planners locally have tried to get feeders added as the cities grew and expanded. Mass transit doesn't fix or eliminate those issues either. I don't remember the exact quote from the Fed on this at a public meeting a few years back. But in essence its about being able to control the corridor during national emergency.
     
  6. buck_master_2001

    buck_master_2001 Elite Refuge Member

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    Those issues were caused by people not having the forethought to think ahead and simply thinking “there’s nothing we can do”. So do we continue to go down the same old road we have been going down which has led us to this problem?
     
  7. Boomn4x4

    Boomn4x4 Elite Refuge Member

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    Mass transit in its current form wont work or be economical..... Mass transit doesn't need to be light rail or elevated rail or anything that we have today. We need to start thinking outside the box for a long term solution. Baltimore and the DC area both have rail systems and their traffic is still aweful. Cities are going to need to be reengineered. Technology is going to need to be improved. LOTS of money is going to need to be spent.

    The one caveat here is telecommunting which takes a lot of the stress off the infastructure.... But at the same time, this also raises the questions... what do you do with the big cities that people and industry move away from (major loss of tax revenue) to keep them from turning into abandoned cesspools?

    I like the idea of using money to improve our infrastructure... but I don't think we really have anyone that's looking at improving it for a long term solution. Here in Cleveland we just spent $300 million dollars to build a new inner belt bridge....it added no lanes, no new exits, traffic is just as bad now as it was before it was rebuilt. Its no longer a safety issue, but it didn't make anything better. I'm sure this is common all over the country, spending a god aweful amount of money fixing things that don't make things any better.
     
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  8. 10GAGENUT

    10GAGENUT Elite Refuge Member Sponsor Flyway Manager

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    As the saying goes Who Knew?? In 1960 there were 60,660,000 vehicles registered in the U.S. today there's 248,000,000 that's four times the amount, yet many roads we are driving on can be the same roads that had been driven on in 1960 granted falling apart quite a bit more.
    Here's a chart that shows vehicle registrations in the U.S. 1900 -1995, best I could come up with, it shows how vehicle registration/ownership has grown astronomically in this country.
    https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/ohim/summary95/mv200.pdf
     
  9. Ron Gilmore

    Ron Gilmore Elite Refuge Member

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    Buck where I live we have had a 30 year master plan of future development. Problem with those plans are unless the city is unweilding in forcing the following of said plan for development they are a guess period. Two major floods affected that plan here greatly in that areas that they envisioned would fill in has now been deemed to remain green space! Back twenty years ago Microsoft came to town and said hey we want to build here and develop our campus on 25 acres. That meant the city agreed to build sewer and water on the west side of the interstate which had been a natural barrier to that area for development. Sped up the plan by 15 years but once the infrastructure was there for city services the area exploded. So while planning can and is needed, adaptability to a plan is vital for cites. We have the ablity to grow out. Other places because of borders with other cities or geographical makeup have to grow up. Our tallest building is a Hotel/Conference Center downtown at 18 floors. One apartment complex similar and our new hospital. Geographically we are not forced to go up, but that also makes mass transit hard to supply. Closest bus stop to my home is a bit over three blocks away.

    When I lived in Madison WI the city only had one direction to expand and that was south west. Neighboring cities had annex control so it was limited in its expansion. What occurs though is the surrounding cities now grow and signs are your indicator as to when you leave Madison and as an example enter into Middleton.

    That doesn't excuse the short sightedness in establishing egress in and out of areas that we see all the time.
     
  10. buck_master_2001

    buck_master_2001 Elite Refuge Member

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    So shouldn’t we start building for the future based on what we have seen how things have grown thus far?
     

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