# Chiwapa Millet



## KSU86

I am looking for feedback from everyone regarding their experience with Chiwapa Millet. 

My experience - I drilled 50lbs in Central KS marsh, late May. By mid-June, the stand looked great. July?s 110 degree temps/severe drought nearly killed it, but a milder August brought it back to life. An early October frost wiped out what few heads I had.

I simply can?t make any conclusion given mother natures' nasty treatment whether the ducks flock to it.

I?m getting amped up to get back on the tractor and try it all again. Early plan is to ditch my ?normal? Corn/Milo stands and embark on a herculean Jap/Brown-Top/Chiwapa Millet buffet.. KS weather has been brutal on Corn.


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## Crow Creek

My experience with Chiwapa was not a good one. Planted it a few years ago and it made the most unbelievable crop, however, the stems are so ridgid that it stands tall late into the fall. The blackbirds ate every seed before the ducks got a chance. I won't make that mistake again, Chiwapa takes 120 days to make so the chances of a drought affecting it are a lot greater than with other millets. I now plant a blend of Japanese, German foxtail, and Brown Top Millets. 45-60 days and its done.


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## KSU86

I agree with your logic on the 45/60 day maturation vs 120. Shortening the timeframe to maturity has to be the way to go in KS. I have one 50lb bag of Chiwapa held over from last year. Anythought on optimum blend of the other millets..Jap/Foxtail/Browntop?


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## Crow Creek

I mix it 50% Japanese 25% Foxtail 25% Brown Top. I drill it in 25-30# per acre.


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## ALLSTAR 1

KSU86 said:


> I agree with your logic on the 45/60 day maturation vs 120. Shortening the timeframe to maturity has to be the way to go in KS. I have one 50lb bag of Chiwapa held over from last year. Anythought on optimum blend of the other millets..Jap/Foxtail/Browntop?



This is my thought also but... In KS and MO what seems to me is you are planting the millet in the hottest driest part of summer. If you want it ripe at Nov. 1 you are planting in August, am I right on that?

Will it stay around and be good food if you plant it in May to get rain etc. or be long gone. Or only good for teal season. 
Or do you just wait and if you can't pump close the gates in Oct?


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## MALLARD MAGICIAN

Guys your thinking is reversed to reality. Longer seasoned, slower maturing plants can withstand droughts or other temporary stress much better then the short season, fast maturing plants.

Why? Because the longer season crop is going thru it's different growth stages at a slower pace. If a stress hits during one of those critical periods you have more days for that plant to wait on improved conditions before it gives up and races forward to the next stages, headed to maturity. A plant's goal is to produce seed, if stressed too hard for too long it will do all it can to produce seed before dying. With short season crops, the days required for each stage of growth are very short...have a stress during a critical stage and 1-3 stages can be passed by before improved conditions come about. Once stages are skipped there is no going backwards and yield will be significantly reduced by those missed stages, whereas a longer season plant held fast having time to wait for better conditions and then recoups and goes forward making a slightly reduced yield but yet very acceptable one.


I fully understand the harsh few summers you all have dealt with out West. Without some help some where along the way neither type is going to survive, but if drought tolerance is what your chasing then chase it with the turtle not the hare.
If the weather has been more favorable in late summer / early fall as of late, then the shorter season stuff may be your best bet....but with weather it's all a BET.


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## cs

Each year makes me buy into MM's theory more and more.


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## Uncle.Lou

Crow Creek said:


> I mix it 50% Japanese 25% Foxtail 25% Brown Top. I drill it in 25-30# per acre.


Sir, where can I buy Foxtail and Brown top to mix with my Japanese millet? Thank you.


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## da fowl slayer

MM is right. also if the blackbirds ate your chiwapa out they are gonna eat your jap out plain and simple you probably just dont have enought plots to withstand feeding nature..kinda like corn you have to plant enough for the coons,deer, and turkey.. Drought is drought and that is exactly why we started planting chiwapa. the advantage with the chiwapa is anywhere you dont get a stand you can folow up with other millet plantings later in the summer. You get two chances rather than 1. the seed heads were huge and the ducks loved it same as jap. I like it cause it stood up to flooding much better than my jap. we do both and usually use the jap in the holes we hunt since it is a much shorter in height. the duck didnt really like chiwapa you will see in my pics so i wouldnt plant it!!!!!!!!

the reason this place is so valuable?? a crop consultant/farmer here to answer any questions we have way over our heads. MM has been helping me with my plots boys for the better part of 10 yrs. he knows his sh1t!!!!! i know i probably dont say it enough mm but thanks a ton!!!!!!!!

more importantly my boys and there friends say THANK YOU!!!!!!!


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## da fowl slayer

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## Crow Creek

Great pics, you plant what works for you, I'll plant what works for me. I planted 30 acres of Chiwapa (don't tell me I didn't plant enough) and it was decimated by the blackbirds. The reason I mix the millets now is because the difference in stem strength/quality. If the seed (chiwapa, jap, or foxtail) is above water the blackbirds can and will eat it. The thinner stalks of the brown top and foxtail millet lay down when the water is put on it, therefore, the blackbirds can't get to it to eat it. It lasts plenty long enough under the water for the ducks to eat it. 
As far as the drought sitatiuon goes, I've been farming for ducks for 25 years and I plant my millet in late July/early Aug and I have only had 1 year where there was not enough moisture to make a crop. I always try something different in some fields but my base corn/millet/chufa stays the same. 

Lou you should be able to find Brown Top Millet and German Foxtail Millet seed at any farmers co-op or seed supply.


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## da fowl slayer

dang crow didnt mean to step on your toes their slick. by all means plant on brother!!!!!!!!!
sounds like you are the man and havit all figured out and aint afraid to say it!!!!!!preach on by all means and we will take a seat!!!!
also i wouldnt consider 30 ac alot millet if you have alot of ducks not sure where you hunt but that would only be about 30,000lbs of food. not really alot if you have alot of ducks frequently feeding in your fields.. if you had 5,000 ducks that would be 6lbs of food per duck. not gonna keep em to long with 6 lbs of food per duck in our flyway. 
im a little different than you..i dont want any of my seed touching the water. thats the day its starts downhill. but to each his on right! what works for us probably wont work for anybody else! huhhh dont make much sense does it!!!!

each millet has its place. we dont use foxtail as we would simply use browtop. easy to get where we are. we only use browntop in place that do not get wet on higher ground. it will not tolerate being wet for long period of time like japenese. which is what we plant in any are that we feel is too wet. alot better than browntop or foxtail would be barnyard grass which is even better...its free!!!!!!!! and easy to get going already in your soil seed bed...


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## Crow Creek

Not preaching by any means, just giving the man my opinion of Chiwapa. Hope to keep him from making the same mistakes I did. I didn't realize that i needed to get your blessing  before I gave an opinion (I am new around here though). Hopefully, someday, I'll be as knowledgeable as you are Pal.


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## KSU86

Slayer-Thx for sharing wonderful pic?s. Great to see your kiddo?s and their youthful friends too. A lot of brown ducks in TN (jokin).
MM-thanks for your advice/insight.
All-star-You pointed out several of my hurdles. I have been planting corn/milo plots in mid-May and watching the July/August heat/drought wipe them out. Now I?m thinking about shifting gears and trying the shorter season millets - hoping for some timely August storms to get germination and a crop. My main marsh is creek feed/seasonal, but I have a well in the works.

All of our locations present unique growing challenges. Central KS probably sets the standard for desperate farming. It?s funny how secretive some clubs can be about their planting, after several years of asking/probing my neighbors what they plant, I am finally getting a more clear picture of my ?neighborhood? and believe the Millet buffet is king in my area.


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## KSU86

how does your drill work on these smaller grains? I drilled the chiwapa with the milo meter. I had nice stands, but suspected the plant spacing was too close? any issue there?. thx - CC for the feedback


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## da fowl slayer

Russ my boys kill every duck they see until they either have their limit or we leave haha!!!!!! Actually managing our Timber doesnt discriminate on killing hens. We only hunt our food plots about 3 times a yr. we always let the ducks sit there and Try to never disturb them. Our access to our flooded timber is on the opposite end of the farm so we can hunt our timber and let the ducks sit. They get up and cruise the timber daily and we shoot our ducks as fast as we can and get out so the ducks can have the rest of the day to loaf in the timber after we leave. We usually kill our ducks by 8-8:30 and get out so a few hens die haha !!!!! I didn't kill any this yr and we had lots of hunts were we killed all drakes but as the season progresses and the flocks get smaller the hens start dying. They say they bands hens to haha and when I put them on the grill or deep fryer I have never been a me to tell the difference... 

Russ also most everybody around you and I just flood wit no plantings at all. I do japmillet but I only do 20-30 acres and of course you know where my farm sits and between the blackbirds and the number of ducks we hold it don't last for crap. The clubs that are planting all do millet. I do know of two that do corn and well those clubs are unreal!!!!!!! I have tried corn twice to no avail. Still would love to get a good stand and try it bu I am bout to give up. The prob in our area and millet is duck use days. Just don't go very far when they get in it.
I did a 120 in millet one yr at a farm I had in Arkansas and when we got our first big push we prob were holding 15,000 ducks on the farm and they ate the 120 clean in less than 10 days


Crow, well never mind! . Sometimes I digress!


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## MALLARD MAGICIAN

> i know i probably dont say it enough mm but thanks a ton!!!!!!!!



You know you've said thanks enough. Easy to share & help a man that doesn't forget. Just disappointed in myself for not seeing the fruits of your work this season...won't happen again.


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## KSU86

Kevin-Some brown ducks find their way on our stringer every hunt too, our young guns haven't outgrown color blindness.

I've just about lost my mojo for planting corn - mother nature has kicked by bottom there. Tentative plan here is to spray 2-4-d for cockle burr, drill 50lb bag chiwapa, and then hammer the snot out of the place - late summer with Millet.


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## da fowl slayer

Russ i thought about trying milo since it is very tolerant to heat and drought but the guy i have that helps me out their says he stopped farmimg milo because of the damge cause by blackbirds. i have done milo before and they didnt seem to prefer it over millet so i went back to millet.


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## Marshwalker

Brown its down!! Naturaul born killers right there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiUuL5uTKc








.


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## KSU86

da fowl slayer said:


> Russ i thought about trying milo since it is very tolerant to heat and drought but the guy i have that helps me out their says he stopped farmimg milo because of the damge cause by blackbirds. i have done milo before and they didnt seem to prefer it over millet so i went back to millet.



The Milo I drilled is the commmercial 90+ day variety and it appears the ducks have very little interest in the taste. It might be advertiser "hype", but I'm planing to try the "WGF", sorter season sorghum.


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## da fowl slayer

Russ I planted wgf. Just for clarification when I tried it


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## Big Thom

Fowl Slayer: Great to see the pics of all those kids having a blast duck hunting. I am jealous of what you have there. Keep it up!


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## da fowl slayer

thx big thom. we are blessed to have such a place.


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## Billy Bob

Any pics of the chiwapa standing and the seed heads?


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## Crow Creek

Pic of some of my Chiwapa crop that got destroyed by blackbirds. 
(not sure how to make the picture show up, instead of a link)


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## Billy Bob

Crow Creek said:


> Pic of some of my Chiwapa crop that got destroyed by blackbirds.
> (not sure how to make the picture show up, instead of a link)



Thank you 

How big are the seeds?


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## da fowl slayer




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## Billy Bob

Thanks slayer, thats exactly what i wanted to see


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## rdj.olympia

Any pictures with ducks on the water? I have some pics I will post tomorrow but can't say I have seen a lot of flooded chiwapa. Mostly guys with beers or someone loosing their daughter in it.


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## da fowl slayer

we dont ever go near our food plots once we flood so we dont have pics. our ducks sit on our plots and never see a human or a vehicle or boat. we hunt in the flooded timber and NEVER bump them off of our food. makes for nice hunts when the birds arent spooky at all.


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## KSU86

da fowl slayer said:


> we dont ever go near our food plots once we flood so we dont have pics. our ducks sit on our plots and never see a human or a vehicle or boat. we hunt in the flooded timber and NEVER bump them off of our food. makes for nice hunts when the birds arent spooky at all.



roughly how many acres separate your refuge plots from your hunting timber?


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## da fowl slayer

Russ
they border each other 1 continuos body of water. 60-70 acres of open ground on south end with 250 acres of flooded timber on north end and we access our holes from the north end of the farm.


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## KSU86

da fowl slayer said:


> Russ
> they border each other 1 continuos body of water. 60-70 acres of open ground on south end with 250 acres of flooded timber on north end and we access our holes from the north end of the farm.



Is it safe to assume your foodplot/roost is close enough to the timber whereby the ducks move off the footplot/roost when your hunting the timber? However, they aren't pressured enough to high-tail it too Mississippi? I am developing two marshes far enough apart where I hope that will be the case. Are ducks considered "pressured" when they hear gunfire +/- a quarter mile away?


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## da fowl slayer

Yea they hear the shooting and all my neighbors hunt as well. Way more shooting then We hear and see in ks. The ducks because they have never been shot In The corn. They make their home there and they just get up daily and Cruz and a few groups mess up daily and do it were we be sat up at

Distance is 1/4 mile closest thru woods and can be 3/4 mi away. That's a good ways thru flooded timber. My next project is to convert farm to 20ga only in the woods. My kids just moved up and they love them 12's. not neccesary at all though


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## rdj.olympia

Here is a picture some of our millet and it was about 2-3 ft tall. We don't get the heat units in the northwest and it usually warms up in about July getting into the 80's then. The plants headed out nice but never had full seed heads as we had 89 days without rain so we burned up everything that was planted. Pretty much like the rest of the country.


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## Dcajun

Men,
I'm new to The Refuge and the forum, so, if I make a wrong turn feel free to
criticize.
First:
I am a hunter and life long resident of Southern Louisiana, where I hunt mainly ducks. I have been experimenting with planting for ducks and saw this post about Chiwapa Millet. I am by far a farmer and most of my attempts to plant,
!anything! has been met with failure. Unlike most of you, our problem down south is too much moisture. I am planting pumped off marsh pasture land. I have an issue with an invasive type of bermuda grass (good for cattle, terrible to kill) but I'm working on that. Here's the question, other than rice, any suggestions on planting a moist soil.
Second:
This is so loaded and age old, I'm almost afraid to ask. First, !I've heard!, that states like Missouri, Kentucky, etc. have been building a lot of un-huntable (government funded) preserves like DU does. I am a member of DU, so I'm not bashing them or the Missouri State Government. I've just got to know, that in one of the coldest years ever, why the ducks didn't end up
in Louisiana. Our state does an aerial survey, and in late November our count of all ducks was shockingly low. Are you guys (duck hunters, farmers) planting so much feed that it is affecting the flyway? Are there really all these refuges around you guys where ducks can rest (no shotguns)?
It's really driving us crazy down here trying to figure it out!!!! Before you
answer, remember this is a friendly question, no accusations, let's talk!!!
Dcajun


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## DagoDucks

I hunt in Illinois and Missouri both public and private ground and I have not found any of these so called "unhuntable refuges". Missouri has developed some fantastic public hunting areas that are managed for waterfowl but they are hunted every day of the season. The surveys from these areas this year were no higher than in years past and by December 7th most of these places had froze up and lost their birds. Would have expected you all to have had some good shooting after that.


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## cam

DagoDucks said:


> I hunt in Illinois and Missouri both public and private ground and I have not found any of these so called "unhuntable refuges". Missouri has developed some fantastic public hunting areas that are managed for waterfowl but they are hunted every day of the season. The surveys from these areas this year were no higher than in years past and by December 7th most of these places had froze up and lost their birds. Would have expected you all to have had some good shooting after that.


 really grandpass is hunted but not the refuge part they hold 80000 to 360000 at a time and when it gets cold they leave for a short time then a slight warm up there back so I can see why them southern boys aint seen the ducks they should .  then grandpass has been known to pump after season [they say for bird watchers ] and these mild winters cant help but this year you would think they would show up but maybe were [ Missouri refuge system ] is getting to many ducks staying to long


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## KSU86

I've only been a duck addict since 2000, owned/developed property for ducks since 2006, so I'm going to cash-out, as far as being an expect. I believe mother nature dictates more about the migration than man. However, I plant decent food for the ducks (as do most of my neighbors) and in most cases, we try to pick up and be out of the marsh by 9:00 a:m. Our "goal" is to chase as few to Oklahoma/Texas, as possible. I don't have enough experience to say if we are successful, but make no mistake - it is a goal.


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## mister gadwall

We have a small six acre flooded area in Tenn that is really not on any natural duck migration corridors. It is a draw down in late winter and plant in early summer an d then flood in november arrangement. I have planted every seed known to man (it seems)in the forty years we have had this place.(we built the dam and water control structures) and a spring creek originating on the property feeds the water source. This year we palnted corn for the first time and deer devastated it. Tradtionally our best crops have been hybrid mil0s and wgf.

year before this I had a bad experience with chiwapa millet too. I talked at length with the biologist for the seed company prior to purchasing the seed (which is relatively expensive and very expensive to ship). Planted seed. Had decent moisture but got very little germination , or at least l couldnt tell what was just grass and what was chiwapa.. Like one stalk every two feet . In some areas l planted solid ten foot wide strips /rows of the chiwapa and then planted WGF in a ten foot strip and then other strips of milo. The chiwapa just didn't happen. I talked to the biologist as the summer progressed and sent him pictures of the plants, asking if this was the chiwapa, and he said he could not identify it in young stages from other grasses or millets or perhaps volunteer stuff....this went on until it was too late to tell what was what and too late to replant. it became obvious that the chiwapa crop had 90 per cent failed as fall rolled around. The biologist had no explanation, was nice to offer a discount on seed if we would try it again, but it was not worth the risk of losing a significant crop portion to me so we did not replant it. Those are the facts.


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## DagoDucks

cam said:


> really grandpass is hunted but not the refuge part they hold 80000 to 360000 at a time and when it gets cold they leave for a short time then a slight warm up there back so I can see why them southern boys aint seen the ducks they should .  then grandpass has been known to pump after season [they say for bird watchers ] and these mild winters cant help but this year you would think they would show up but maybe were [ Missouri refuge system ] is getting to many ducks staying to long



360,000 out of a estimated 46 million is .78%. Probably not the reason they aren't seeing as many ducks. Check the band recovery data at flyways.us and note that there has not been any significant increase in recovery around mid MO. Looks like the biggest concentration is still in Arkansas and you can see the shift out of LA. 
I would guess that as was said earlier that weather is still the most important factor along with water and food for their migrating pattern. If you figure it out let me know as we went from our best year in 2012 to our worst year in 2013 and I am right next to one of Illinois's finest duck parks.


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## Fowlballer

DagoDucks said:


> I would guess that as was said earlier that weather is still the most important factor along with *water *and food for their migrating pattern. If you figure it out let me know as we went from our best year in 2012 to our worst year in 2013 and I am right next to one of Illinois's finest duck parks.



No water no ducks period. After 2012 we learned we will never be without water ever again.


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## cam

DagoDucks said:


> 360,000 out of a estimated 46 million is .78%. Probably not the reason they aren't seeing as many ducks. Check the band recovery data at flyways.us and note that there has not been any significant increase in recovery around mid MO. Looks like the biggest concentration is still in Arkansas and you can see the shift out of LA.
> I would guess that as was said earlier that weather is still the most important factor along with water and food for their migrating pattern. If you figure it out let me know as we went from our best year in 2012 to our worst year in 2013 and I am right next to one of Illinois's finest duck parks.


 agreed I think it is weather and water thing but we do have 15 refuges in Missouri .


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## DagoDucks

cam said:


> agreed I think it is weather and water thing but we do have 15 refuges in Missouri .



And we have had most of those 15 for a long time. Can you name the newest and when they were added? I don't know, I am asking? And some of those newer areas such as the BK Leach addition and Columbia Bottoms don't hold enough birds to matter. I would think that Four Rivers and Eagle Bluffs are the next oldest??


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## cam

DagoDucks said:


> And we have had most of those 15 for a long time. Can you name the newest and when they were added? I don't know, I am asking? And some of those newer areas such as the BK Leach addition and Columbia Bottoms don't hold enough birds to matter. I would think that Four Rivers and Eagle Bluffs are the next oldest??


 I really couldn't say I really don't keep up that much haven't been to one in 20 plus years and wont but I know its only .78 but if your the one waiting for that . 78 it means a lot for your season


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## Big Thom

DFS: I lve thsoe pics of you and your kids. Lots of smiles - and reat memories - there. 
You are a rich man beyond your dreams.


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## Fowlballer

DagoDucks said:


> And we have had most of those 15 for a long time. Can you name the newest and when they were added? I don't know, I am asking? And some of those newer areas such as the BK Leach addition and Columbia Bottoms don't hold enough birds to matter. I would think that Four Rivers and Eagle Bluffs are the next oldest??



I remember hunting Four Rivers when I was in college. The HQ was the size of an outhouse. I am guessing that was 1990 or 1991. Not much has changed at Schell since I was a kid except all the timber in A-pool died. The new manager is making some great changes.


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