# Where to start



## thatguy2

Starting to think about a pond. I attached an overview. House is in the NW corner. Tiny pond east of the house that only holds water a few days after a rain. Don't think it began life as a pond.

Buildings in the Sw corner are gone as is all the cedars along the roads and fence lines. A ditch separates my two fields and empties into a creek just off the property line. Where do you start with planning a pond? I am in a flyway and only a mile from a large lake.


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## smashdn

NRCS Bio. Was it or is it current farmland? How long have you owned the property? Is any of it already involved in some form of easement or is any of it currently delineated as a wetland?

Where are you located and how picky are the feds and local jurisdictions about permitting and such?


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## thatguy2

Owned it for 2 year. It was farmed at some point, but not in the recent past. No easement or wetland delineated. It's in Kansas. These are our rules
When building a new pond or refurbishing an old one, a landowner must obtain a permit from KDA’s Chief Engineer of the Division of Water Resources for the construction, operation and maintenance of any dam that is 25 feet or more in height, or six feet or more in height with the ability to store 50 acre-feet or more of water.

The landowner must also file for a permit to appropriate water on impoundments built to retain 15 acre-feet or more of surface water. Water appropriation rights are obtained through the Division of Water Resources for a fee that is based upon the quantity of water for indirect use (evaporation loss from the surface of the water, and seepage loss). The minimum fee is $200. Without a water storage appropriation permit, the reservoir could be subject to removal, or required to be drained until a permit is obtained.


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## JFG

What smashdn said, start with a NRCS biologist. They can provide technical and sometimes financial support in some cases. Have them come to the property and evaluate. There's no charge for this.

Aside from proper permitting (if needed), the first thing you'll want to know is what type of soils you have. That alone will dictated where you can and can't build a pond due to seepage. Next is water source. Will you count on mother nature for water, drill a well, or pump from/stop up that creek? Utilizing a creek to flow "through" a pond (if allowable) would be very economical and provide you with water almost any time. You'll then want to look at your topography and elevations. How much of the natural vegetation do you want to use and/or incorporate into a pond? What depth(s) do you want it? Size? What type of birds will be utilizing it? Will it be a SAV, moist-soil or planted "pond"? These are just a few basic things I think you'd want to know for starters that should help you in your decision making process. Best of luck.


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## smashdn

15 acre feet is not much water really. Better get some help on the permit side from NRCS Bio. If you don't qualify for any of the programs at least bend their ear and get their opinion on how to lay it out and get the most bang for your buck.

Do you have equipment? Tractor? What is the dozer rates in your area?


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## thatguy2

I have access to a small tractor and laser level. I have a SxS currently. Buddy used to build wetlands and ponds for USFWS. He says if I rent the dozer he would build it for free. I can rent a dozer for $1400 a week. Dozer rate from a dirt guy I was quoted 120/hr.

Soil type is Kenoma silty loam but you hit clay about 3 ft down.


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## thatguy2

Sorry I remembered another thing but it wouldn't let me edit. I do have a well down in the SW corner near where the old buildings used to be. Wells in this area can only supply 10-100 gpm. I want to place a dam across the ditch. It recieves enough flow to supply a pond.


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## CA Birdman

How big is your property. What is your goal with pond. Place to hunt once a week or so. What is your budget. Drains so you can draw it down, plant food crops, etc. then flood.


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## thatguy2

I've only got 33.5 acres. I was more thinking a traffic pond. Also put fish in for the kids to go down and catch.

Don't know on budget yet. Planning right now and wanted to see where it would come out.


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## smashdn

Do they deliver the dozer to your site?


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## thatguy2

Yes.


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## smashdn

If he knows how to run a dozer and you ain't gonna get caught by the permit police do it up and hunt it this season.

No chance that there is buried tile out there or deep crawdad burrows is there? Key in all your levees so they are solid and don't leak.

Make sure it gets compacted real well (the clay) and then have him push loads of topsoil back over it to a depth of about 6" if you can. You want to seal it but still be able to grow stuff in it.


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## thatguy2

I went in and talked to NRCS earlier this week. The technician that handles this is supposed to call me for a walkthru of the property.


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## DisplacedDuck

thatguy2 said:


> I went in and talked to NRCS earlier this week. The technician that handles this is supposed to call me for a walkthru of the property.


BUMP

Any updates? Just curious as to how your little project is progressing!


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## thatguy2

DisplacedDuck said:


> BUMP
> 
> Any updates? Just curious as to how your little project is progressing!


I got a call right on schedule. I was working nights so she left a message. I've been trying to get ahold of her for 2 months. I watch ducks and geese fly over my place daily and it makes me wonder what I could do with a spread of decoys running traffic on a pond.


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## thatguy2

So they got back to me. Site is conducive to a pond. Small drainage area of 3-4 acres. 30 yrd by 40 yrd modified pit. Would require moving 1800 cubic yards. Also require 60 ft of sbr 26.

Kind of disappointed with the size but I think I can work with it. Watching birds this fall I think I could run some serious traffic. What do you guys think?


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## KSU86

Are you working with NRCS? what limits the size? if you dig down 2-3 feet, how moist is the soil? My experience, has been pit ponds have fewer restrictions - 
(a) less than 6 acres (b) spoils not deposited in/over a wetland (c) no running creek feeds the pond. Maybe "Watershed ponds" have more restrictions?


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## thatguy2

NRCS in Coffey County is who I am working with. I am guess drainage would be hard to support more than that. I just called them back and left a message.


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## AK Dux

Just remember, if you build a dam/levee, they will require you to have inspected by a professional engineer every 5 years, and report on it every year. Unless Trump eliminates that particular executive order of Obama's.


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## thatguy2

This might happen. Contractor coming out next week to take a look.


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## DisplacedDuck

Good luck! Keep us posted!


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## thatguy2

Contractor came out today and we shot and flagged it. Dozer coming early next week to remove trees.


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## thatguy2

Pipe was delivered yesterday.


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## DisplacedDuck

Pics man!


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## KAHunter

How big did you end up going??


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## thatguy2

We think it will be an acre and a half. They haven't been able to accurately shoot it. After today that will be a non issue. They have the track hoe in as we speak clearing the area. Photo bucket is messed up so I can't post pics.


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## thatguy2




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## thatguy2

It's on pause. There appears to be a natural spring that is keeping the area too soggy for a dozer. Hoping it dries out this summer but considering we are in moderate drought and it's still wet I have my doubts.


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## callinfowl




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## thatguy2

We have standing water and it's soft enough I stuck the SxS in it


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## CA Birdman

Get a mudcat. We ran one in 2 foot of water pushing primrose out of our slough a few years back. Only solution that got long term results.


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## thatguy2

Still waiting. Raining like a son of a gun right now. He is talking about shaping the pond and adding a 2" line with a valve.


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## smashdn

2" seems small. Easy to plug up with a stob or limb too.


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## thatguy2

He made it sound like all the 2" line would be for is to drain the water that natural spring is putting in the area so we could get the remainder of the pond built. It will have a 12" overflow pipe. If thats the case I may be able to lower water level a bit to plant jap millet around the edges in the summer.


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## thatguy2

Equipment will be here in the morning. Gonna get going


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## Little Ruddy

Every project has got to start somewhere and its sounds like you are determined to get it done. Good job! It will all be worth it when that first bird comes into the decoys!


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## thatguy2

Dozer is here


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## thatguy2

First day work done. Not going to he as large as I hoped but working within the constraints of my property. First day is complete


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## WHUP ! Hen

Looks good, nice and deep so you can run an ice eater. How big is it ?


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## thatguy2

Original plan via NRCS was for 30 yds x 40 yards however this one should be bigger since we moved it into a natural drainage. I'll shoot it with a range finder tomorrow. They aren't done yet. I meet with them in the morning before I go to sleep. Thinking about having them expand it to the south a bit.


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## thatguy2

It is done. I just shot where I thought the waterline would be with my range finder. 35yds by 35 yds with a depth of 11'9". Not a monster by any means but it gives me someplace to stock fish for the kids, train the dogs, or try and run some traffic on the birds in the area.


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## KSU86

Nicely done! any spring or filled via runoff? get 6-8 old car tires, shoot some holes in them and get the flat head minnow's started once it fills. 
KS forecast looks like death valley for the next 7-10 days. I have a small pond started last fall, and plan to finish soon. It will really add to the value of your property and enjoyment.


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## JFG

Looks nice. If you haven't done so yet, make sure to get your seed broadcast on the shelf/shoulders and strawed asap.


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## thatguy2

I haven't broadcast any seed. With no rain in th foreseeable future I'd just be wasting seed. As it is I think I wasted 50 lbs. turkeys are gonna have it cleaned out long before we get rain to germinate it.
Been busy. Bent the bar on the chainsaw not thinking. Made a couple rockpiles too. Not huge but my daughter was being a slave driver. Builder was getting equipment Saturday morning. He thought 60 across but I don't really see it.


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## WHUP ! Hen

It looks like you have a good seed bed, I would sow the seed and put a pack of straw on it. It might rain and you'll be sorry you didn't have it planted, plus you'll get a load of weeds.


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## thatguy2

Seed is down with rain forecast tomorrow night. Got the bill and came in $1400 under budget so a happy day.


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## mrmallerd

You may want to check out Pond Boss Forum. Good info in re pond management


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## thatguy2

Thanks I am on Pond Boss already. Its in the site selection portion of their forum


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## thatguy2

Nice soaking 1" rain last night. That'll help the millet as well as my other food plots


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## thatguy2

Millet is coming up nice.


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## thatguy2

Little pond pic. All th green is millet


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## thatguy2

Got some hedge drug in there for the fish. Millet looking good. Also a small amount of water in it.


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## Lonegoose35

I built a small pond few years ago on our property. Only 75'×110' and 6' deep in the middle. We have a lot of good shoots over that little.pond so dont be concerned about the size. We have blue gils and bullhead and bunch of minnows. If you build it they will come. Enjoy it!


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## thatguy2

2-4" of rain predicted in the next 36 hours. That will fill it nicely


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## thatguy2

It's been nearly a month on the jap millet. When can you expect to see heads forming?


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## STL11

I just planted jap millet this yr for the first time it took about 40 days to produce seed. Around day 45/50 they all have seeded out now just waiting for plant to mature. I do browntop as well in my higher spots and it produced seed in 30 days the last few yrs and is usually mature for me in 45/50 days


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## thatguy2

I've got a decent stand on the dam and around the pond. Don't know if that will attract birds or not.


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## STL11

Looks like some good millet there. How come nothing down in the pond while its dry?


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## thatguy2

I spread seed all down in there. Some came up a lot did not and got washed down. Since it is heavy Clay what came up below the waterline did not do well.


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## thatguy2

Still waiting on rain. Seeded some leftovers cereal rye around the pond as well. Hoping some green will get geese stopping by. Right now we need some stead rain for a couple days.


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## Lonegoose35

thatguy2 said:


> Still waiting on rain. Seeded some leftovers cereal rye around the pond as well. Hoping some green will get geese stopping by. Right now we need some stead rain for a couple days.


Not trying to be a debbie downer but i will be surprised if your pond holds water. I went through same thing. Ended up putting in a pond liner and burrying it. Stays pretty full. Been 5 years now. I went through 2 "ponds" before i got one to hold water. Was epic fails and a lot of work and wasted money. Takes a ton of rain to fill or even half fill the hole you have. Especially with no run off or high water table. I tried to put up couple pics of my process but isng working. Screenshots from photobucket. Lol


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## Lonegoose35

Here is



couple pics


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## thatguy2

It'll hold water and it will get a lot of runoff. It's holding enough water in the bottom for the dogs to swim around the brush. 20+ acres of runoff feed it. Heck I had to upsize the overflow pipe. We had to wait for a drought to build it because it was so wet. We just haven't gotten any rain. My yard is brown. October is usually fairly wet, hoping the pattern holds. Rain in the forecast, but we haven't had a rain with significant runoff since early August and even then it wasn't much.


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## Lonegoose35

thatguy2 said:


> It'll hold water and it will get a lot of runoff. It's holding enough water in the bottom for the dogs to swim around the brush. 20+ acres of runoff feed it. Heck I had to upsize the overflow pipe. We had to wait for a drought to build it because it was so wet. We just haven't gotten any rain. My yard is brown. October is usually fairly wet, hoping the pattern holds. Rain in the forecast, but we haven't had a rain with significant runoff since early August and even then it wasn't much.


Well hopefully it rains for you. Not too much of course. Good luck w the birds.


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## thatguy2

Got 1.5" but little run off. The cracks in the yard closed up so hopefully the rain predicted this weekend can run off into my pond. It did come up a little. I calculated at work I need roughly 750k gallons to fill it...

Side note: next year when it has water would it be better to keep the edges mowed, or plant more stuff around the edge. Geese fly over nightly and ducks fly over in the AM.


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## thatguy2

4" of rain last night and it came up a few feet. Also had 20 canadas come over tree top tall when I was out checking it out.


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## thatguy2

Gonna try it in the AM. Water level has receded a bit since that last pic since we haven't had any moisture since then. Stale ducks and lots of folks on public. A few ducks and geese flying around the house so why not. Saw 20 mallards as I was building the blind this afternoon. Also taking the puppy for her first taste of hunting


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## Lonegoose35

well?? Has blood been shed yet or what?


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## thatguy2

No we had no takers. may give it a go some time this week again. Saw thousands of snows. Ducks flew over 10 minutes before legal. Saw canadas but didn't have any decoys out. Brother doesn't think birds will land with the brush in the water.


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## Lonegoose35

thatguy2 said:


> No we had no takers. may give it a go some time this week again. Saw thousands of snows. Ducks flew over 10 minutes before legal. Saw canadas but didn't have any decoys out. Brother doesn't think birds will land with the brush in the water.


If you are looking to get geese in there I would clear out as much stuff as possible. Even around pond..high grass/brush is perfect spot for predators. Just judging by pics it looks tight for geese. Ducks more likely to use it than geese I bet. Good luck!


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## thatguy2

No brush around it at all. It would be perfect for geese if it were full. Just hedge and cedar in the bottom that I drug in for th fish. Problem is we are in drought status and they are visible in the water.

Went down today and pitched a few decoys into the open spots trying to get some ducks coming there.

After the seasons close in February I am thinking about dumping corn in the water around the edges to try and imprint some birds for future years.


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## Lonegoose35

Just looked at your pics again. Looks like the whole field is overgrown vegetation and location is close to the wood line. It's perfect ambush spot for predators looking for a quick snack. I just dont see geese feeling safe there to hang out to be honest. But what heck do I know. Hoping it works out for you. Throwing out corn will have no effect on imprinting a food source for future waterfowl. Unless ducks find it and you hunt them the next day and that would be baiting and illegal anyways.


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## thatguy2

We got 1.3” of rain. The largest total since oct 22. Put some good water in and we have rain chances of rain next week as well.


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## thatguy2

Stocked it first week of April with 150 hybrid bluegill and 4 lbs of fathead minnows. It’s fun feeding them. Little man caught the first to come out of it and it was fast and furious. I also planted some buckwheat around the pond, and Milo on the back side of the dam at the base.


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## thatguy2

6" of rain this morning and for the first time it is full and overflowing.


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## KSU86

Great looking pond there, Thatguy2.. seeing any Teal, yet?


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## thatguy2

Saw some yesterday. We got another 2.5 inches today so far.


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## thatguy2

The gentle slope out of the water on the north bank seems taylor made for rester/sleeper spreads. Ive got the grass mowed down around the pond and I planted winter rye to give it a green component.
100 3-4" hybrid bluegill went in today. Also 50 8-11" channel cat. This is to supplement the 150 4-6" hybrid bluegill that went in Mar 22nd. We lost some in the overflow event as I found them dead in puddles downstream.


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## thatguy2

I mowed the north and south banks. The dogs love it. Ill probably mow the north bank back a little more.


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## thatguy2

Well we had first blood. I tried to hunt a different pond but it was frozen. Mine was wide open. Lots of birds flying over and I got a late start. First duck was 5 min after I got set up. Even brought the old dog out of retirement for it.


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## KSU86

Thatguy -
Your pond is looking great with all the vegetation filled in... & perfect size for an "old" dog to be king of the retrieving world.


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## thatguy2

Went down there today to retrieve a decoy I was hoping the 30 mph north wind would push to shore. Drake mallard and some gwt on it. Going to get a blind so I can take the kids down there.


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## DisplacedDuck

That's awesome tg! So happy with how this has panned out. Thanks for keeping us up to date, and please continue to do so!


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## thatguy2

So only shot the one duck on it during the season. Been lots of geese flying over but with work not much time to hunt them. I wish I wouldve had a generator for my ice eater. I am clearing all the trees between the pond and the road to give it better visability. Ive sowed clover all the way around it and will keep it mowed short. Thinking about having someone hay the stuff north of the pond to give me a nice hay meadow all along the north shore.


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## thatguy2

Hybrid bluegills are getting big. Lost a bunch to large flood events this spring.




Ive removed all the trees. Also keeping the grass mowed around the pond. Ive got browntop millet planted on the backside of the pond dam.


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## DisplacedDuck

That bluegill is huge! I'm sure catching them is a blast. Congrats on a fruitful endeavor.


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## Drakes Landing

Nice work ThatGuy!!!! Dual purpose and keeping that grass short should be a recipe for some successful early season honker hunts!!!!

Good luck


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## thatguy2

I believe when we get another big drought we are going to enlarge the pond. Ive also stocked catfish and regular bluegill in it. Thats jap millet lining the water.

It gets alot of traffic from the lake to the south. Canadas fly over headed out to feed and fly back treetop tall right over the pond. I am hoping to put out a set to make it look like some birds loafing and shoot a few.

Not sure what to do on the wayer side of the dam. Too steep to mow. May mox up some 2 4 d and rodeo, nuke it, burn it, and plant buckwheat.


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## thatguy2

Millet coming up on the pond dam


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## thatguy2

Season starts tomorrow and little man wants to go. Expectations are low but there are alot of ducks in the area just none sitting on the pond proper. I due see some wood ducks go in on it in the AMs from my treestand so hoping we can get a shot. Lots of birds in the area so hopefully we can traffic a few.


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## thatguy2

Missed several today. 2 groups of teal did it, and I had 2 groups of mallards give me a look. I need to learn to call geese as I had 4 groups of canadas go over 50 yards tall that I think a good caller like my brother wouldve had in our laps. Not bad for a quick after work shoot.


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## da fowl slayer

Quick tip
Move your decoys away from the bank out to the middle 
Will help the birds see them better sooner


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## thatguy2

da fowl slayer said:


> Quick tip
> Move your decoys away from the bank out to the middle
> Will help the birds see them better sooner


Cant. Its too deep


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## da fowl slayer

Find you an ol Jon boat or kayak or canoe 

paddle out 

would be worth your time 
Prob get an ol Jon boat for couple hundred bucks or maybe free

guy gave me an ol 12ft Jon boat this yr 
Something like that would be perfect


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## thatguy2

Then I would have to run 15 ft of line on each decoy. Would be a nightmare anytime I am not hunting that pond. Not to mention tangling in all the cedars at the bottom of that bad boy.

Plan is usually a large loafing fullbody spread on land with some decoys tucked in out of the wind. I just left a bunch of decoys in the shop.


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## da fowl slayer

Killing ducks is plenty pain in the @$$
Just a recommendation that would definitely increase your odds of killing way more ducks than putting your spread against the bank 

but killing more ducks is not everyone’s goal 
I definitely understand that as well


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## bwelty

Get a long pole to help get out, that would move them away from bank. I have a 15 foot painters pole that would be of help


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## da fowl slayer

After thinking a little
Drive a stake in the ground across the pond and tie you a bungee cord and or surgical tubing to it

run you a string with decoys tied to it and have a big jerk cord back to your blind
I would run two back to the blind at different angles from two digmfferent stakes
Basically like a long line set up but w a jerk string action

then after hunt you can walk it around back to the stake and easily pick it up

no decoy cords or weights necessary
No wading no boat
Ez pezee

nothing in duck hunting more effective than a jerk string

but the most important part of placing decoys is being seen 

you will always want them in the light and in the wind 

avoid setting them in places out of the wind and near the bank because they blend in and ducks won’t see them


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## bwelty

Great info here.


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## thatguy2

It drops off quick. I use an old pole saw to get to those. Where those decoys are at would be over my head. Yesterday every pond on the way home had birds trying to get out of the 40 mph north wind. That’s what I was trying to emulate. I want quick and easy set up on my pond. Lots of other places to go that I can kill ducks. But yesterday from the time I left work till I was set up and hunting was 35 min. That’s what I am interested in for my pond. It’s never going to be a limit producing freak.


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## bad dog

hey that guy,dont change a thing!!!I live in the country with a lot of farm ponds.ducks and geese are in the middle only if they are new or scared.bad dog


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## thatguy2

I think its safe to say that the pond is mostly a bust waterfowl wise. It provides some good fishing and dog training though.


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## Lonegoose35

At least its holding water.


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## Little Ruddy

I would just set out more goose decoys rather than ducks for visibility reasons. A dozen floating geese will pull A lot more ducks and get you better. results. Ducks will land better to goose decoys than you think, try it. BTW, nice set up with the pond. Keep at it, Rome wasn't built in a day. Takes time,patience and $$$,you All ready know that. Good Luck!


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## smashdn

Skin down a bank and create a big flat when you go to enlarge it. But a flash board riser on your outfall. Level it so you can flood the big flat you created. 

Then you got a pond to fish in and shallow water area you can plant and flood.


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## thatguy2

Ive actually wondered about creating a wetland between the house and the pond. Its a low spot and a ditch runs through it. If I ever got a tractor with a box blade I could make it easy peasy


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## thatguy2

thatguy2 said:


> Ive actually wondered about creating a wetland between the house and the pond. Its a low spot and a ditch runs through it. If I ever got a tractor with a box blade I could make it easy peasy


Wife is kinda on board with this. Ive got a tractor may try to make something happen. Wife is talking about wanting either another pond here or tying in our existing pond. If we end up in drought like we think we might I may call the dirt guy.


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